Adobe Photoshop (Windows Only)Adobe Photoshop Discussions Forum (Windows Only). Photoshop is a graphics editing program developed and published by Adobe. It is the current and primary market leader for commercial bitmap and image manipulation, and is the flagship product of Adobe Systems. It's the industry standard for graphics professionals.
Keywords Adobe, Photoshop, Windows, recommendations
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John Navas
Guest
|  Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
|
On Sun, 28 Dec 2008 21:03:07 -0500, Neil Jones
<castellan2004-nschap (AT) remove-this (DOT) yahoo.com> wrote in
<xdW5l.40014$sC4.10935 (AT) newsfe04 (DOT) iad>:
Quote:Leo Lichtman wrote:
"John Navas" wrote: $28 is too much?
Thanks for wasting our time. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think you're being a little harsh, John.
It does sound harsher than I intended on re-reading -- my apologies --
but it still seems to me that in fairness to responders it should have
been made more clear at the beginning of the long thread that this was
little more than idle curiosity.
Quote:The posters to this thread were
not only responding to the OP, but also exchanging ideas among themselves.
That's a nice way to put it. LOL
Quote:I think many questions raised in such newsgroups, and this is a good
example, are informative to many others--they provide answers to questions
that many did not know how to ask.
There was certainly value to some, but to others it was a waste of time.
Quote:Thanks for pointing this out. To John's credit who participated in a
seperate thread, I ended up buying a Panasonic Lumix FZ28S which I love.
Good for you -- great camera!
Quote:The pictures that I get from this camera are amazing. Suddenly, I decided to get more creative and started exploring Photoshop products. Ultimately, since I am the "Decider"  I have to be careful about pocket busting software products. Even if it only costs $28. The hidden expense from jumping into new software is the learning curve and the time sink that is created. Lot of people don't realize the time sink in software products. My .02 cents. Thank you for the suggestions though.
I'm afraid I can't follow that logic -- it's dirt cheap and easy to
learn and use; you spent many times that time and money on the camera;
and you presumably need image processing software, so how could it be a
real obstacle? Regardless, I think that should have been made clear at
the beginning as a matter of respect to those you are asking to help
you.
Quote:PS - BTW, John you are really good at searching products at discount
sites which I never knew existed!
Thanks. Glad it worked out.
--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John |
| | Back to top | |  | John Navas
Guest
| | Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:03 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
|
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:48:34 -0500, Stephen Henning <pighash (AT) aol (DOT) com>
wrote in <pighash-23EC99.11483429122008 (AT) news (DOT) isp.giganews.com>:
Quote:BillGarrens <bgarrens (AT) unknown (DOT) org> wrote:
In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to
"intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none
the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their
business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original
start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for
the best software available.
Professionals are very intelligent and support those products that
support them. They usually know one of the developers on a first name
basis and help guide the product toward their specific use.
Professionals use products that were there for them from day one and
stay there for them. For example, if you go to a major media event, the
major suppliers for professional photographers have support people there
to help the professional photographers.
In the US, Nikon has been the most common professional system because
Nikon has a major presence at all major media events. In Japan, Canon
is the most common professional system for the same reason there.
Canon dominates pro sports photography in the USA -- note all those
"white" lenses on the sidelines.
--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John |
| | Back to top | | | Matt Ion
Guest
| | Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
|
John Navas wrote:
Quote:On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$2 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gja521$mn0$1 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
KatWoman wrote:
I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
of them have any idea what they're talking about.
I've personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials
and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience
with books has all too often been worse.
YOU have... some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube
search, though... maybe not so much.
All I can say is that newbies I've referred to YouTube have learned
much, and without any real problems.
Yes, but you're probably referring them to videos that you've already
vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have
problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they'll
stumble across are teaching poor techniques.
So now that person learns poor techniques, hacks together a few of his
own, creates his own video to teach those to others... and around it goes.
It's like someone being taught to drive by an uncle who has a stack of
moving violations as tall as he is... yeah, he'll still learn to drive,
but he's gonna pick up some bad habits and wrong ideas in the process. |
| | Back to top | | | John Navas
Guest
| | Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 9:48 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:14:59 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gjbeli$fa9$1 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
Quote:John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$2 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gja521$mn0$1 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
KatWoman wrote:
I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
of them have any idea what they're talking about.
I've personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials
and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience
with books has all too often been worse.
YOU have... some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube
search, though... maybe not so much.
All I can say is that newbies I've referred to YouTube have learned
much, and without any real problems.
Yes, but you're probably referring them to videos that you've already
vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have
problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they'll
stumble across are teaching poor techniques.
Examples please.
--
Very best wishes for the holiday season and for the coming new year,
John |
| | Back to top | | | Glen Atwater
Guest
| | Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:10 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 13:14:59 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 08:05:03 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gjasgd$7bp$2 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
John Navas wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 01:24:53 -0800, Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote
in <gja521$mn0$1 (AT) reader (DOT) motzarella.org>:
KatWoman wrote:
I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
of them have any idea what they're talking about.
I've personally found it pretty easy to look at a few video tutorials
and pick out which ones are the more credible and useful. My experience
with books has all too often been worse.
YOU have... some n00b who plugs "photoshop tutorial" into a YouTube
search, though... maybe not so much.
All I can say is that newbies I've referred to YouTube have learned
much, and without any real problems.
Yes, but you're probably referring them to videos that you've already
vetted. The original point quoted above was not that people have
problems learning from the videos, but that many of the videos they'll
stumble across are teaching poor techniques.
So now that person learns poor techniques, hacks together a few of his
own, creates his own video to teach those to others... and around it goes.
It's like someone being taught to drive by an uncle who has a stack of
moving violations as tall as he is... yeah, he'll still learn to drive,
but he's gonna pick up some bad habits and wrong ideas in the process.
This is true of any learning experience. I have downloaded quite a few pirated
photography books. I wanted to see what is being "taught" out there in
contemporary photography books on the store shelves. They only pirate and upload
the most expensive and comprehensive ones, making it worth the pirate's effort.
I deleted them all after reading through them. I wouldn't want anyone that I
know to learn from those authors. The authors were wrong 90% of the time on all
subjects they covered. I guess if they can't sell their photography then they
write books on how to do photography, finally making use of all their
unmarketable "example" photos. If they can't sell their photos as a
photographer, apart from putting them in "how to" books, then there's a good
reason it shouldn't be in a book on teaching photography either.
"Those who can't, teach."
This is probably why I also find the very best editing software. I don't depend
on others to teach me how to use any software. I'm not stuck in a last century
software-rut just because everyone else uses the same outdated thing. I'm
willing to try any new editor that comes along. Many of them easily surpass what
is "popular" or considered "best" by all others. (I'd share my list of new
favorites but ... it's more fun watching all these online amateurs wallow in
what they think is still "best".)
Those who learn best and know best are those who have the capability to explore
on their own and teach themselves. In the creative arts you don't hone your
creativity by mindlessly aping others.
"Learning creativity from others" is about as oxymoronic as it gets. |
| | Back to top | | | Randal-T
Guest
| | Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| On Mon, 29 Dec 2008 11:48:34 -0500, Stephen Henning <pighash (AT) aol (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:BillGarrens <bgarrens (AT) unknown (DOT) org> wrote:
In all my travels and in all I have met, rarely does "professional" equate to
"intelligent". Some just keep using what they were told to use long ago, none
the wiser. Many use it because it was and is the best tax write-off for their
business office and nothing more. That being a large reason for its original
start. Hardly a reason to advise the use of it today if someone is looking for
the best software available.
Professionals are very intelligent and support those products that
support them. They usually know one of the developers on a first name
basis and help guide the product toward their specific use.
Professionals use products that were there for them from day one and
stay there for them. For example, if you go to a major media event, the
major suppliers for professional photographers have support people there
to help the professional photographers.
In the US, Nikon has been the most common professional system because
Nikon has a major presence at all major media events. In Japan, Canon
is the most common professional system for the same reason there.
There have been a lot of great programs but where are they now?
Programs like SuperPaint. Photoshop has been the standard by which all
other programs are judged since day one. If photoshop won't do
something, there is a Photoshop plugin that will. It gets very
expensive to buy Photoshop and all of the Plugins, but if you are truly
a professional, you can't afford to not use them. Most Plugins are a
way to buy time. And if you are a professional, your time is worth
money.
I don't think I've ever read a bigger crock of nonsense conveyed in so few words
before. |
| | Back to top | | | Foto Trix
Guest
| | Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:38 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you
want and more. It's basically a clone of Photoshop 6.
Go to http://www.GIMP.org
-------------------
http://www.FotoTrix.com (Photo Tricks) |
| | Back to top | | | nospam
Guest
| | Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| In article
<b6618cea-3155-492e-9b95-d21024ab8a43 (AT) m2g2000vbp (DOT) googlegroups.com>,
Foto Trix <nerdful (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you
want and more. It's basically a clone of Photoshop 6.
photoshop 6 is about ten years old. nothing like being on the cutting
edge. |
| | Back to top | | | The Real Bev
Guest
| | Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:52 am Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| nospam wrote:
Quote:In article
b6618cea-3155-492e-9b95-d21024ab8a43 (AT) m2g2000vbp (DOT) googlegroups.com>,
Foto Trix <nerdful (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Yup, try GIMP before you rush out and pay, it may do everything you
want and more. It's basically a clone of Photoshop 6.
photoshop 6 is about ten years old. nothing like being on the cutting
edge.
Just depends on what you need. For many, Picasa (from google, free and very
easy) is overkill.
--
Cheers, Bev
*****************************************************
Nothing is so stupid that you can't find somebody who
did it at least once if you look hard enough. |
| | Back to top | | | Bob Williams
Guest
| | Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:13 am Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| Neil Jones wrote:
Quote:harikeo wrote: harikeo wrote: Neil Jones wrote: Always Has An Opinion wrote: Go cheap. Photoshop CS2 (if you can find it) or CS3 will be sufficient. There's a ton of plugins which make things easier, but I've never needed them. I've retouched photos, created 3D art and much more with just the basic package. You can find a lot of tutorials on YouTube as well. Great idea! I went to Amazon and looked up for CS3 but found that it costs as much as CS4 (even in the used section). They were listed at $649 (USD). Some of the craigslist sellers listed it for $100 to $150. I don't know if these are bootlegged packed with trojans in them. I am suspicious because of the price difference between the new version and used version. What are some good sources to buy cheap/used software like CS3? Thank you once again. NJ Howabout Photoshop Elements 7 unless you want/need the full-blown PS CSx? mind the rap on the earl http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-65026616-Photoshop-Elements-7/dp/B001DMBWXS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=software&qid=1230128042&sr=8-1I forgot to mention Gimp 2 which is free http://www.gimp.org/I do have GIMP 2 but haven't done much with it. Photoshop seems to be have a big following and easier to get some help. NJ PS - My digital camera also comes with some software which most people (including myself) haven't heard of before. The software seems to be ok but difficult to get any help.
If I were you, I would buy Photoshop Elements 7.
It has practically all of the features of full PS that a novice needs.
In fact it is made for Novices. Whereas, full PS is made for
Professionals. The look and feel of Elements and PS is very similar.
So if, and when, you decide to go with full PS, the transition is
painless.
You are right that one of the advantages of PS (or Elements) is that a
lot of Help and Tutorials are available on the internet.
Even So, I would purchase a self help book on the subject like
"Classroom in a Book", by the Adobe Staff. Photo Editors, especially
powerful and versatile ones are mystifying to the novice. It helps a lot
to learn the jargon and how to use the editing TOOLS corectly.
A good book will get you started on the right foot.
WARNING: Photo Editing can be addictive.
Bob Williams |
| | Back to top | | | Chris Malcolm
Guest
| | Posted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Re: Photoshop recommendations |
| In rec.photo.digital Matt Ion <soundy106 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:
Quote:KatWoman wrote:
I personally think the free video tutorials on YouTube, which cover
features old and new, are more helpful than books, because it's easier
to see just what to do.
Just be aware some of the youtube ones I saw advocate poor techniques
That goes back to my original point, that the software being "popular"
doesn't mean everyone out there will be an expert in it. Yeah, you'll
find lots of people willing to discuss it with you... doesn't mean most
of them have any idea what they're talking about.
Just like cameras :-)
--
Chris Malcolm |
| | Back to top | | |
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